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Winsford 'Joker' Devine Speaks
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TriniSoca.com Reporters
Recorded: on July 19, 2007
Posted: September 12, 2007
Edited: September 14, 2007
LESLIE: How many children do you have, and if any, are any of them interested in Calypso or Calypso writing and so on?
WINSFORD: I have eight children. Seven is with my present wife and one is with another girl. The only one out of all my children who was interested in music died at the age of nineteen. A week before he sat A' Levels he fell off a tree and died. We do not talk about that at all. We just have the picture of him. Right now, I have only seven children. I have one child in New York with a girl and six living here.
MR. DOUGLAS: You said none of them are interested in writing Calypso?
WINSFORD: They tried under my urging. Not everything is for everybody. My daughter likes figures and one of my sons does glass work. Another one of my sons likes to dig up in radio and so on. The next one really likes geography. He is working with the Regional Corporation mapping out for houses and so on.
MR. DOUGLAS: Doesn't that give you any urge to pass it on to other people?
WINSFORD: In the beginning. The boy from Tobago who won Young Kings a couple of years ago used to come by me regularly. These days, I have a little problem recalling names. I taught him how to write up to a certain standard. He writes for Karen Eccles and them now. It's so funny but since he won Young Kings he never came back or called me.
MR. DOUGLAS: He never stayed in contact with you?
WINSFORD: He never called me. All my friends tell me he is that kind of fella. He likes the status thing. Some people, when they achieve a certain thing, they feel they are big.
Mr. DOUGLAS: They don't feel they need to be around you again.
WINSFORD: He sings his own songs. He sings okay too. Curtis Pierre and I judged the first competition he won. Curtis was the White boy who had a band called Dixie Land. Since that competition, he has been singing. I didn't hear him this year at all. The present Speaker in the Senate, Titus, he was a Calypsonian.
'Gypsy' was not the first Calypsonian who became a Minister. Raymond 'Atilla the Hun' Quevedo was also involved with politics way back in the earlier days. I am hearing some of those Calypsonians going up this year. 'Protector' is going up to see if he could win for Laventille. 'Contender' is going up too. 'Pink Panther' is going up for somewhere in Sangre Grande but he will lose. 'Protector' will win.
They cried down 'Gypsy' and they are still crying him down. 'Gypsy' brought respectability to the profession but you can't tell them that. They get vex with me every time I tell them that. I told them 'Gypsy' made Calypso singing something respectable. He won two terms in the elections.
MR. DOUGLAS: And he might win again this year.
WINSFORD: I don't feel so. But he told me he will win.
MR. DOUGLAS: I was speaking to Dr. Joe Laquis a few months ago down Mayaro. Apparently they reconfigured that electoral area. He was saying he doesn't want any unity among the opposition because the only way PNM could win that seat is if the opposition splits up. He said if they won, PNM cannot win because of the new areas they included.
MR. DOUGLAS: During all this time you were involved in Steelband and Calypso, what would you say are some of your fondest memories of your experiences during that time?
WINSFORD: Probably one night when I went in the tent and Austin sang "Progress". I didn't go the first week in the tent when he sang "Progress". A guy came to me and said, "'Joker', you write Progress boy?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Yuh ever went and listen to it?" I said, "No." A night my wife and I went in the Young Brigade Tent and they brought on Austin. He got about nineteen encores. Austin got so tired he couldn't sing. That was one of my fondest moments. There were other nights like that too. The first night 'Trini' got a real encore I felt so too.
MR. DOUGLAS: What was the tune?
WINSFORD: "Curry Tabanca". I never went to see him sing since. He told me "Sailing" used to be like that. The tent was in Queens Hall the night my wife and I went to see him. 'Trini' got encore until he got red. He always calls me and he would tell me about that. Every time you hear him talk he says I made him get encore in the tent and 'Merchant' and I put him in the Savannah.
'Trini' is one of the Calypsonians regardless of what colour he is. With all the 'Baron' and the 'Sparrow', 'Trini' and 'Crazy' are close to my heart. The only person who really treats me as a person who writes for him is 'Trini'. If anything happens to me and I call 'Trini' now he will come here and do anything for me and my wife and my children. He appreciates what I did for him, although I did it for money.
MR. DOUGLAS: The point is that the money was important to you, but him being able to go on that Savannah stage, I know that meant a lot to him. Money cannot pay for that. His cousin told me that about him. From small, his ambition was to go and sing in the finals.
WINSFORD: He sang Calypso before he came to me. It was Barley who brought 'Trini' by me. A man charged 'Trini' twenty-three thousand dollars for a Calypso. The fella died. He made the Calypso "Ah Born 'Trini'" and some other Calypso he wrote for 'Trini'. The first time I saw 'Trini' in the Young Brigade Tent he was singing those Calypsos. Every night 'Trini' sang in the tent, the man wanted money from singing in the tent. When 'Trini' came by me and I explained to him how I work, he never forgot me. The first song I wrote for 'Trini', he made a big hit. He got a lot of encore with that song. The Calypso was called "Soca Your Woman".
Sparrow got vexed with him that night. He benched 'Trini' for that song.
MR. DOUGLAS: Why? Because he wanted it?
WINSFORD: No. Because 'Trini' got more encore in the tent than 'Sparrow' did. I see 'Sparrow' bench 'Spit Fire' a night for getting more encore than him. 'Spit Fire' had a song called "Too Many Millionaires in Trinidad" and he was singing that in the tent. 'Sparrow' was in New York at the time and when he came down 'Spit Fire' was a hit because he was getting encore after encore when he sang in the tent. Yuh know who was getting plenty encore too? And that was the first night I heard him sing. A Calypsonian called 'GB'. He sang "Big Country Attitude". 'Sparrow' sang but he didn't get an encore. When he had finished singing he got clapped and that was it. 'Sparrow' was by the side peeping to see if they would call him back but they didn't call him back at all. He bench 'GB' and 'Spit Fire' for getting more encore than him. They say 'Sparrow' said when he is singing in the first half they must never sing in the first. 'Sparrow' did that to 'Baron' when they went on a show in Barbados. 'Sparrow' recorded the first song medley. I was begging him to do it for 'Baron' all the time. 'Baron' own came out and everybody liked 'Baron'. 'Sparrow' begged the promoters to put him on to sing after 'Baron'. 'Baron' said, "Watch meh. Me eh changing my position. That is the position I make up my mind to sing." 'Sparrow' was vexed too bad and sang before 'Baron'. People didn't call back 'Sparrow' because 'Baron's medley was better than 'Sparrow's'.
It was 'Sparrow' who told me to write for 'Baron'. He told me that 'Baron' was a good fella to write for. I started to write young tunes. I was writing material that he wasn't feeling comfortable with to sing. He told me to give it to 'Baron' and give Austin "Progress". The song "Survival", I wrote that song here a day. When I had finished writing it and I listened to the recording, I was going to give it to Austin but I gave it to 'Sparrow' instead. That was the last crown he won.
I remember when I had called him and he told me to bring the song. I carried the song for him and he listened to it and said, "Ah doh think I could use that song." I said, "Well still keep a copy of it." I called Austin and I gave him the song. Austin sang the song for Ed Watson and Ed said, "Ah making an album and I want that song on the album." He and Austin worked out their thing and they passed and picked me up here and we went up by Leston Paul. Leston put down the rhythm tracks and he let Austin sing. While we were up there I don't know who called 'Sparrow' and told him they were working on the "Survival" song. 'Sparrow' called me and said, "Hear what happen. Ah going and use the song." I said, "But ah just give Austin the song and we are recording it now." He said, "I am taking the song. I am paying you for the song." I said to Austin, "Hear what is happening. Is 'Sparrow' and I respect 'Sparrow'. Let 'Sparrow' sing the song." Ed Watson was vexed because he had already started the song. But these things happen.
That song with 'Shorty' they say was the first Soca song; who do you think did that song?
MR. DOUGLAS: The music for it?
WINSFORD: Yes. If you look on the record you are going to see Arthur De Coteau, but it was Ed Watson who did that song.
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