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Winsford 'Joker' Devine Speaks
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TriniSoca.com Reporters
Recorded: on July 19, 2007
Posted: September 12, 2007
MR. DOUGLAS: So you never used to write down your music?
WINSFORD: I started to do that. Pelham and they do that now. I would say that I am one of the first persons who started to score my music and direct the band from in front of the band. I see everybody doing that now. I have my sheets which I sit down home here and write. I do not do the music exactly as I do it home here. When I reach in the Panyard, if I feel I should not put down what I did at home I would do something different because ideas are always flowing according to what you hear.
There are fellas like 'Boogsie', who is a genius in music. He is the only Pan player, I do not know if there are others, who will stand up here and listen to what you are playing inside there and come right here and play it. Ray Holman is okay but he is not in the same class as 'Boogsie'. 'Jit' is a Pan-player unlike 'Boogsie'; he could play nearly every Pan.
MR. DOUGLAS: 'Boogsie' plays by hearing and instinct.
WINSFORD: If you see how 'Boogsie' arranges. When he used to arrange for Jewel 22, I used to go over there every night and watch how he arranged. He would come in the Panyard with nothing in his head and tell you to play what he taught you the night before and then he would start to play to what you are playing. You have to watch him and catch him because if he goes outside, he forgets. He is the only man that has a kind of recall also. I hear they say Godwin Bowen is like that to.
MR. DOUGLAS: Bowen has a totally different style from 'Boogsie'. He worked with Pamberi for several years.
WINSFORD: He is a very intelligent fella too.
MR. DOUGLAS: I know his music well. I listen to a lot of his music.
WINSFORD: I listen to all those fellas arrange and so on.
MR. DOUGLAS: So you learned a lot from looking at these fellas arrange?
WINSFORD: I didn't only listen to their music. I also watched their interactions with the Pan players. 'Boogsie' has something with those fellas. Any Panyard from town to Toronto, as soon as he enters the Panyard there is a respect shown to him by every Panman. I don't know if it is the fame.
MR. DOUGLAS: It's his ability.
WINSFORD: Fellas follow 'Boogsie'. Clive Bradley had that too.
These are the things that I admire about 'Boogsie'. I tried to write lyrics for him at one time. The first tune 'Boogsie' ever composed he brought it by me but like I wasn't able to please him. It's not everybody I please in Calypso. There are fellas I tried to write for and I am talking about for years. One such person is 'Explainer'. Doh care how I write for him I could never write a song that he could make a hit with.
I couldn't satisfy 'Boogsie'. I wrote the tune three times and he was never pleased with it. He never used it. I think it was "Pan Down Frederick Street" or some kind of thing like that. This year 'Crazy' sang for 'Boogsie'. They robbed 'Boogsie' this year.
MR. DOUGLAS: You feel so?
WINSFORD: Yes. He was the best. I have those songs on my computer and I play them over and over.
MR. DOUGLAS: That is the perennial Panmen's cry. Every year Panmen say they get robbed.
WINSFORD: I didn't like All Stars tune. To me, I am hearing the same thing over and over by 'Smooth'.
MR. DOUGLAS: But his style is a particular way. It's a kind of racy, bouncy kind of thing because he knows that excites the crowd.
WINSFORD: I have a son here who likes All Stars bad. My wife likes All Stars too. I like Ray Holman's style. Nobody else in the house likes Ray, only me.
MR. DOUGLAS: Ray Holman has a nice flowing style but they might consider it to be a little too slow-paced for them. But that is his style.
WINSFORD: Last year he came by me and I wrote the lyrics for the song. I didn't write the lyrics this year because I was sick. I also wrote "Heroes of the Nation". The first one he came to was me. I wrote "Pan Woman", "My Band" and so on for him. We fell out because I was in the Savannah when they played and I didn't see my name on the banner. I saw, "Tune composed by Ray Holman," but I didn't see my name.
Let me tell you a little bit about what happened the year with "My Band". I was in Panorama and my partner came and said, "'Joker', I thought you say you are the man who write the lyrics for Ray Holman band?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Well I now looking at Tokyo band and ah eh seeing your name. Ah seeing Ray Holman name." When I looked up on the banner I saw, "'My Band' composed by Ray Holman." I had a few drinks in meh head. Normally I doh react so, but I went by the captain and I said, "What is dat? I write the words for that song." He said, "But Ray Holman say is he." Ah started to make ah set of noise. Guerra was in the band that year and he said, "'Joker', what happen to you?" I said, "Watch all yuh banner. I write the lyrics for that." He said, "But we are not playing the lyrics." I said, "Put tune by Ray Holman and take out "My Band", I put that". He and the captain went in the band and they start to argue. Guerra told me to take down the banner and put "My Band" composed by Ray Holman and lyrics by Devine. They got a tin of paint and changed it one time. These days I do not care about that anymore.
MR. DOUGLAS: No. You should care.
WINSFORD: You feel so? I find that is too petty. What I am concerned about is when I go on the internet and I see somebody win Panorama and 'Baron's' name is there. I would call Pan Trinbago, all of them, and make them change the name. I see when they are putting Oba's tune they put his name: Oba. I notice when they are putting 'Boogsie's' tune they put composed by 'Boogsie' Sharpe and song by whoever. That is how it should be. I never use to study that.
MR. DOUGLAS: No. It is important, especially for copyright.
WINSFORD: I never told Ray Holman anything; I learned to live with that.
MR. DOUGLAS: Why? To me, that is a form of dishonesty.
WINSFORD: Man looks out for himself.
MR. DOUGLAS: So why is he coming to you? If he feels he composed the tune, then why is he coming to you to write the lyrics?
WINSFORD: They say he writes the lyrics for himself. When he came here I said to him, "Ray, why don't you be one of the Panmen where you could sing your own tune?" Ray could sing. He has some songs that I wrote for him. I wrote about six lyrics for him. There is a particular song I didn't write all the lyrics - just half. But the topic of the song is beautiful. I said to him, "Doh give that to anybody, sing it for yourself." Alvin and I begged him to sing it. He told me he will sing it when he is ready. Ray is a real laid-back person and he is slow too.
MR. DOUGLAS: It comes across in his music.
WINSFORD: But he could play.
MR. DOUGLAS: Yes, I know.
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